black lake is not the bass fishery it used to be

[MrSimon]

I just read through this thread and want to offer my two cents.

I'm from Southeastern PA and have been coming up to Black for about 6 years now. We come up in May and fish almost entirely for Pike. However, we obviously also catch bass too. Lots of bass, and they are big. While casting spoons over weedbeds we consistently pick up largemouths in the 2-4 pound range. While jigging around shoals and islands, we consistently catch smallies in the 1-3 pound range. Almost every bass we catch is over 15" and very healthy. Heck, most times we catch more bass than Pike.

Now, obviously we all know that Black lake can offer up some crazy weather patterns, and when the fishing shuts off, its shuts off for everything - bass, pike, walleye - everything. So I'm not saying we're out there catching lunkers left and right all the time ..... but when the fishing is good, we see plenty of big healthy bass. They are in there in the Spring, so if you guys can't catch them in the summer .... well, I'm not gonna finish that thought

As for the guys saying Black is different than it was 30 years ago .... well, I ain't as thin as I was in my 20s .... gas is more expensive than when I was in high school .... and the woods I played in as a kid now has a 4 lane highway right through it. Welcome to life folks. It is what it is.

Has pressure, development, and harvesting hurt the fishery? Sure. To some extent. Nobody can argue that.

Is it still a fantastic place to fish? Heck yes!!!

So throw fish back, politely encourage your friends to do the same, leave other people alone, and go fishing!

[fishinmagician]

I have been a BL fan from my first visit in July of 2006. I have been there for the last four opening day for bass. I have averaged about two weeks per year. I have used both cabin rentals and RV if cabins are not available. In all this time I have been checked only once by Fish and Game Wardens. It was in 2009. Seems like a wide open area if one was inclined to poach.
I would think the Black Lake Assoc. who make there living on the lake would be Pro-Active in the concept of preserving this outstanding fishery. Posting the size limit at every dock, both private and public, as well as in every fish cleaning station and a water proof card mounted in every rental boat.
I would also include the Ice Fisherman as a target for enforcement. Because it's cold the Law Enforcement people don't go out on the ice. This is not acceptable to the people like myself who practice C&R and or proper bag limits. I am not opposed to a fish dinner, but filling up your freezer by uncontroled bag limits will degrade the fishery for all. If we don't use this incredible lake with all it has to offer with respect, it will just become a lake that used to be a great fishing destination.

[Phil]

I have been a BL fan from my first visit in July of 2006. I have been there for the last four opening day for bass. I have averaged about two weeks per year. I have used both cabin rentals and RV if cabins are not available. In all this time I have been checked only once by Fish and Game Wardens. It was in 2009. Seems like a wide open area if one was inclined to poach.
I would think the Black Lake Assoc. who make there living on the lake would be Pro-Active in the concept of preserving this outstanding fishery. Posting the size limit at every dock, both private and public, as well as in every fish cleaning station and a water proof card mounted in every rental boat.
I would also include the Ice Fisherman as a target for enforcement. Because it's cold the Law Enforcement people don't go out on the ice. This is not acceptable to the people like myself who practice C&R and or proper bag limits. I am not opposed to a fish dinner, but filling up your freezer by uncontroled bag limits will degrade the fishery for all. If we don't use this incredible lake with all it has to offer with respect, it will just become a lake that used to be a great fishing destination.

Well, I can tell you that DEC is on the ice of Black Lake way more often than they are on the water. It is a much easier task in the winter.
I was approached no less than 6 times last ice season by the DEC. They are great guys and spread very thin across the state.
Another action is for every sportsperson to call the DEC TIPP line when they witness a violation.
It will be difficult to control the very few folks that poach on Black Lake.

[fishinmagician]

I am not a local so I do not know how strict the DEC is on the people who fish the bridge area near Edwardsville. I have fished just north of the bridge and have seen a lot of shorts dropped into buckets. One late afternoon in 2008 my son and I observed approx 9 or 10 I guess they were Amish folks in a 14 foot aluminium boat without a life jacket to be seen. These are the stories you hear about on the news. The headlines would read (Entire Family Drowns While Fishing Black Lake) I would think the DEC enforcement should be stepped up a bit.

[Flukeman]

Some great reading in this thread, I am surprised that there was not a stronger showing from business owners around Black Lake. I have fished the lake since I was 10 years old, so about 38 years. Of course when I was younger we always fished for panfish and northerns. I did not really target bass up there until I was 18 or 19 years old. I now fish for bass 75% of the time for both pleasure and tournaments, and run NY's Federation Bass Trail. I do not eat bass, can't figure out why anyone would choose too with so many better tasting fish available. I do have several friends in both the state and federal agencies who work with fisheries and we talk about this often for multiple locations, not just Black Lake.

I feel 100% comfortable telling you that tournaments are not your problem, with the exception of one (which I will get to later). With today's boats, additives, and handling care mortality is low. I run a 100 boat trail (so we'll never come to Black Lake, lol) and keep in touch with all locations well after our tournaments to track later mortality. I am very proud with our results and our reputation around this state when it comes to that. Do we never have dead fish, of course not. And some organizations have had problems from time to time. Someone earlier eluded to tournament results. More than ever people are not even getting limits on BL these days, too many short fish. So once again, not really bringing very many fish to weigh-in.

I will say, Black Lake is an awesome bass fishery for catching bass. Most of us tournament guys can catch 15 - 30 bass everyday we are up there. Unfortunately they are all 14" bass, I have never seen so many 14" bass. i say that because they aren't shorter or longer, but always around 14". I think a slot rule would be a good choice. I think the tournament guys will adjust on their end, they will have to. Most of us fish tournaments for the challenge anyway, it will just be a different challenge.

Predation from cormorants and meat eaters will always be 10 times worse than any tournament. And it is not the meat eaters who follow the law that are really the problem, it's the poachers. We have a group from PA who stay at "Charlies" on Oneida Lake and every year they catch coolers full of 3-5 pound largemouth going in and out all day long. We call the DEC but they are spread so thin it is hard to get every situation like that handled. Every year we hope this will be the year they get hammered by the DEC.

A tournament I do not fish and do not like is the Black Lake Dash for Big Bass! I have been there and watched people bring big bass in to the weigh-in in little tin and pontoon boats in non aerated beer coolers to be weighed in. These fish most definitely will probably die after release and I have seen people take these fish as well. You also have to wonder how many fish just die in these beer coolers during the day and just go to the dinner table. And of course this correlates directly to your problem of the lack of bigger fish. I think there definitely needs to be some rules in place about aerated live wells for this event. Maybe there even is now, this was 4-5 years ago I watched this happen.

I love coming to Black Lake for the bass fishing because of the numbers. And if you are not catching bass, you need to change how/where your doing it. The place is loaded with bass! But I would say the last 8 years I have noticed the largemouth not being as large. And yes the smallies are more plentiful and seem to be getting larger! I only get there about 4 times a year now and one of those times is the end of April for our bullhead derby. But the 3 bass fishing trips are always special, I especially like the fact that there is not a cabin every 30 feet all around the lake. I think if the DEC can make more patrols for a couple of summers in a row to set the tone, it would go a long ways to deterring poachers. As well as people around the lake taking a proactive roll in setting the tone of following the rules. Hopefully through dialogs like this forum pleasure fishermen, tournament fishermen, meat fishermen, and the businesses can come up with some ideas so the lake can be all things to all its users.

P.S. I'll be up in April to catch some night time bullheads and hopefully learn how to catch those daytime crappies.

[jigginmike]

Been reading many but not all the comments about the fishing decline. I agree with all the posts about over fishing especially with the tournaments. My uncle has a camp right next to the state launch where the weigh-ins take place. On many occasions he has found nice sized dead bass near his dock after a tourney had taken place. The methods of handling the fish has to be fine tuned so that there is less mortality. I also think a slot limit would help.

We have kept some bass from the lake (in the course of the year only about 10 are kept for the entire group) though our main interest is crappies, perch and the occasional lucky walleye catch, but frankly the bass were much better tasting than bass from any other place I have eaten them from. Of course the crappies, perch and walleyes are the best tasting bar none in our opinion.

One thing I have not seen mentioned (not to say it wasn't brought up as I said I have not read every post) is the invasion of zebra mussels. The water has been becoming clearer than it used to be because of them and I'm curious as to how this is affecting the fishery as a whole. We have found the bite much tougher although at certain times and places we have done very well. Does anyone have anything to offer on that subject?

On a different note, I believe part of the reason for the business loss is not so much a factor of declining fishery but the overall economy and gas costs. I'm sure that many would be vacationers can no longer afford the cost to travel and fuel their boats at the pumps.

Regardless of what happens we'll be on the lake enjoying even the worse day of fishing.

[Fishpro]

Until about ten years ago or so Black Lake always had a wealth of pan fish of various species. Then along came the stupid idea of introducing Crappie to the lake as an extra food fish for the pike and bass. Yes - you guessed it - they exploded in population and were so numerous that one would get tired of catching them. Only thing is they then started to wipe out the Walleye fly and fingerlings. Walleye were famous for the lake's popularity and over night they became scarce. Only in the last few years of restocking Walleye fingerings have they partially brought the Walleye back. Then, as if that wasnt enough , along came the Zebra mussels. Within three or four years they not only caused the water to be more clear but they chased the perch and the bluegills and sunfish further out into deeper water. This is why it is now hard to find any decent sized crappie and bluegills. Lesson to be learned - Dont mess with Mother Nature!

[Flukeman]

I don't know about there not being any big Panfish. We come up every year the last weekend in April for our bullhead get together. We have always caught nice Sunfish and Perch out in the deeper water. Even though I can not seem to catch a Crappie to save my life, I know nice ones exist. Two years ago Mel (McClears) had a friend take him out fishing, those boys came back with some of the nicest Crappies I have ever seen. The fish are there, they are just in different places these days. The zebra mussels probably did clean up the water so much the fish have moved out some. All I know about zebra mussels is they have brought fantastic bass fishing to Lake Erie, Ontario, Oneida and the St. Lawrence. And we are catching more and bigger fish of all species on Oneida Lake since they arrived. Like I said earlier, they are not in the usual spots anymore, they have adapted! My Dad's spots still produce fish, but those are not the spots where the bonanza is now. Now if I can just figure those darn Crappies out on BL!

[Steve Milarmby]

I totally agree stop screwing with nature! The seasons r the seasons too cold too hot water high water low. Tell me something ... if it was the same every year how much fun would it be? Been up here eleven years now and every year is different, wouldn't have it any other way. Its hunting in the water, and its the greatest sport there is!!!!!

[racing11111]

IV decided put my two cents in on this subject,to start with i do keep a few crappie and perch and an ocasional walleye for a fish fry at camp but never bass and for taxidermey purposes there should be no other reason to keep a bass unless the fish is gonna die for what ever reason.There are way too many panfish there to eat and they are relatively easy to catch. that is just MY OPINION and mine only.walleye are pretty scarce at BL but we seem to get a few every year.As for crappie there are millions there we can catch them very easily but most of them are 8 1/2 inches. we do catch some that are nice in between the small ones though.you just have to know where to fish and their patterns, and let me tell you it changes every year.so Jeff i will see you at the fed tournaments this summer and give you a few tips ok.But on the other side i see tons of bass in the fish cleaning houses at several places iv stayed and just dont understand why!I have also seen the amish on a huge pontoon boat near raspberry island just slay the crappies and have questioned the size and numbers but that is up to the dec to check them not mine. but in general over the last 10 years iv fished BL i do see a decline in larger fish being caught in every species.What the answer is i dont know but i just keep fishing BL cause it is so beautiful there. AGAIN JUST MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION.
racing11111

[jigginmike]

Replying to FISHPRO.

Not sure why you say that about ten years ago someone came up with the idea of introducing crappies. They have been in the lake for as long as I've heard stories about the lake. My family has been going to the lake since the sixties and they tell stories of dinner plate size crappies they use to catch back then. I've been going up now for for about twenty years or more and there have have always been crappies since I started going. It's the main reason we fish the lake.

Something I do agree with some of the other posters is that DEC is not catching all the people with undersized fish. One afternoon we were watching a couple put crappies in the basket that looked very obviously small. While they drifted off further from our boat, two DEC officers came up to us and checked us out. Since we thought they would check all the boats, we didn't say anything to them. I wish we had because they went to several other boats in the area but unfortunately never went over to that particular couple. I guess they just lucky that day.

[Glenp]

The big crappie are still there. You simply have to find them. They are much easier to locate in the fall than during the summer months. I had a weekend last fall when we caught numbers of 11-12 inch crappies in the three days we were there.

Catching those numbers of large crappies are difficult through the summer. They seem to scatter throughout the lake in the deeper water. The water clarity has made them a bit more difficult to catch in the summer. Like the bass, morning and evening are the time to catch them.

I think that they tend to school by size. If you are catching small crappies, move on.

[Fishpro]

Dont know what I was thinking when I said it was about 10 years ago when they introduced Crappie to Black Lake. I think old age is catching up with me. Giving it some thought I'm sure it was about 25 or more years that they were placed in the lake. In any case I feel it was the wrong thing to do. I am a firm believer that we shouldn't mess with mother nature. Catch & Release

[Phil]

Here's the history of our walleye stocking program and a little story by one who has, most likely, more knowledge of the walleye and Black Lake than nearly anyone - Earl Cluckey.

http://blfga.org/walleyeinblacklake.html

[Danny Boy]

Interesting topic. I've been fishing BL for 17 years now. I still believe it is hands down, the best bass lake in NY. I have noticed a decline (in my catch anyway) in numbers of larger LMB, but when the bite is on, not in overall numbers of boated fish. I don't fish tournaments, and I'm strictly C&R when it comes to bass.
As far as slot limits go, I would agree it might be beneficial to implement on BL, however, I think there would be some significant push-back from folks who make their living off the lake. Certainly if the goal was to decrease pressure on the fishery, I believe a slot would diminish the number of tournaments on the lake, and likely impact the amount of vacationers who visit the lake to fish and take home filets. Pure conjecture on my part, but with the price of gasoline skyrocketing, I'd think most tournament clubs would find it easier to get folks to travel and post an entry fee on a lake where they can be more competitive size wise, as opposed to someplace you could only creel 4 dinks and one fish over the slot. Likewise, if vacationing from out of state, paying non-res license fees, and looking to fill a cooler, I'm sure some folks might think twice about their return on investment from a slot lake. Again, just speculation, but I'd have to believe there'd be some residual negative impact to businesses around the lake.
Definitely a provacative subject. From a management perspective, I think it boils down to determining how best to balance the quality of the fishery vs. local economic concerns.