The next ten days

[John M]

I believe the next ten days with the consistent good weather pattern will be the prime crappie spawning time. So, the percentage of keeper crappie per crappie bite should increase. The one thing that a body of water like black lake clearly illustrates is fish school by class. The abundance of crappie at Black Lake, make observation clearly evident. Our strategy was to hit as many different shoals and points( both island and mainland). We decided to limit out time on each spot to 20-30 minutes. There were many spots were we could have caught fish pretty consistently, but left because the percentage of keeper ( 9"+) was 10 to 1. The first two days we sort of got away from our game plane. Which is easy to do. You catch so many fish is addictive. And you lose track of time. We fell into this pattern Thursday and Friday and had to measure so many fish, it was extremely time consuming. Consequently, we didn't find a school of larger size crappie. Having had our group fish fry Friday night, we decided to only 9.5" crappie and up( put the measuring board away). The first two days we also fell into the vacation mode. Didn't start fishing until 10-11 in the morning/afternoon. The weekend we sort of returned to normal fishing pattern, on the water by 6-630 am. By sticking to our game plan we were able to locate larger size crappie later in the 2:30-3:30 pm. All artificial bait, all plastic tubes, grubs and swimming minnows with
Curly tail or twister tail.
Looking forward to reading the fishing reports this next 10 days

[492VS]

I believe the next ten days with the consistent good weather pattern will be the prime crappie spawning time. So, the percentage of keeper crappie per crappie bite should increase. There were many spots were we could have caught fish pretty consistently, but left because the percentage of keeper ( 9"+) was 10 to 1.

So people worry about catching and releasing bass cause they are on beds and get all bent out of shape about it. But then when the crappie are on them its a free for all to cull and cook. No wonder the sucess rate is 1 out of 10 being legal size.

[MrSimon]

I think any crappie over 12" should be a mandatory release. Just imagine what the fishing would be like if that were the case ... still tons of eaters but also plenty of giants to catch and release for the fun of it!

[Tori]

Mr. Simons, very good idea on a slot limit for the crappies. How do you get that idea rolling? I see some Amish folks keeping dinks all the time. Wish that would stop. I have never caught one over 12 inches so I am safe!
Tori

[John M]

If you tolerate the Amish taking undersize crappie less than 9" ( illegal fish) how could you rationally justify a slot limit where a fish over 12 inches would have to be returned to the water. If you don't have the fortitude to follow up with the D.E.C. concerning fishing violations of short fish, do you believe you would suddenly develop a commitment to report violations of fish over 12"?.
Bottom line, when witnessing a fishing violation it is so easy to take the necessary information to report to the D.E.C. The boats have 3 inch registration numbers applied to both sides of the bow of the boat. If your really adamant about the illegal fishing practices, expressing your displeasure on a internet forum doesn't address the problem.
From my recent limited knowledge of Black Lake I've noticed a dislike of bass fisherman. Assume, that stems from that percentage of bass fisherman that catch and release bass preseason. I've read all the expert opinions on this forum, on how this practice affects the bass population. Of course, not one time did I see a reference to support that theory. However, the other counties where catch and release is allowed will establish a precedent whether preseason catch and release is detrimental to the bass recruitment level.
Irregardless of my personal thought on the subject, the bottom line is the D.E.C. has determined it is illegal to target bass in this body of water, so everyone should respect the laws of the particular body of water or suffer the consequences. If you want to pursue bass fish Oneida lake.
But, I'm wondering how a collection of fisherman that are so adamant about prefishing for bass, tolerate the poaching of walleye at night at the Rt 58 bridge ( Edwardsville). Within 3 days of being at Black Lake, I heard this numerous times. How is this practice allowed to continue? Or how about in the fall when the crappie supposedly have a tendency to congregate again near the Edwardsville bridge. Apparently another time where poaching takes place. Now how can such blatant disregard for the rules take place on a lake with such concerned citizens?
Back to the 12" plus should be released. It would be interesting to have the DEC determine if 12 inch crappie were of a older class than 11 inch crappie or 10 inch crappie. To establish whether the 12 inch crappie does in fact have superior genes to pass onto their off spring. Or is it just from an older class crappie? If in fact the 12 inch crappie is a year or two older class than the 11 inch crappie, and this result is repeatable, the philosophy that larger crappie have a better gene traits is erroneous.
Oh well, I'm sure there are many that vehemently disagree with my views. You can either use this posting or the private message section to address your disagreement.

[MrSimon]

John, I don't know what it is about your posts .... but they are just irritating. You seem like a good guy who loves fishing and wants to invest in the area and the lake. But, your posts are condescending and you aren't as informed as you think you are.

Regarding the Amish. They don't fish from boats, they don't have license plates on their buggies, and they all dress alike. So what information exactly should people call in? Besides, their propensity to keep everything they catch has already been well documented with the DEC. Many times. For years now. I can promise you that the DEC has received hundreds upon hundreds of calls from locals, just like Tori. Law enforcement is well aware of the problem, and the local members of the Black Lake community have done everything they can to stop this practice. It is out of their hands, so please don't attack the character and "fortitude" of people you don't know over an issue on which you are not informed.

Regarding the poaching of walleye at night. Well, considering walleye season is open now and night fishing is legal, everything that happens at the bridge is completely legit. So again, instead of bashing folks on this forum, maybe you should educate yourself first.

And regarding your "noticed dislike for bass fisherman", why not come up to the lake in the summer and take a look around. Everyone is fishing for bass, having a great time, and enjoying the lake and the area. If not for bass fisherman, the community wouldn't exist, and we all know that.

Lastly, let me give you some advice ... stop forming broad sweeping opinions of an entire community based on small pieces of info you pull from an internet forum.

You've fished this lake for what, three whole days? Maybe you should spend a bit more time here getting to know the "concerned citizens" as you call them, before publicly bashing them.

[jcalpine]

Thank you Mr. Simon for saying whats been on my mind for some time.

[sickntired]

Ow, ow, now you did it Johnm. You stirred up the hornet's nest. Be prepared! The cronies are joining the attack. You can't win, give up before they really put you in your place!

[John M]

S&T, it's not a contest. Just a forum where you exchange views and information. Hopefully you learn something from the exchange of information. One of the things I first noticed on this forum was the negative connotations of those fisherman driving those big shiny bass boats. Apparently because other fisherman, presumably local anglers have witnessed these boat owners specifically targeting bass preseason. I agreed its against the law and shouldn't be tolerated. However, I was hoping that someone that felt so vehemently that preseason catch and release would cause harm to the fishery would provide a study to support their belief. My opinions are based on studies I have read. But, I not against learning or changing my opinion. Discourse is a great learning tool. Initially, I sought studies on the effects of preseason catch and release on northern fisheries. I was only able to find two in my initial search. One from the preseason catch and release on New Yorks new preseason catch and release season. This open season c&r showed no negative effect on the recruitment factor of bass. Another study in Indianna resulted in the same conclusions.
Many times ones beliefs are set in stone from things they experienced Or heard in the past. The culling of female deer ( doe's) has been frowned upon by many hunters. Now in certain remote areas of the state this might be true. But in the more populated parts of the state it is necessary to keep the herd at its carrying capacity. But many hunters were so steadfast in their belief of not shooting doe's that the state, in an effort to cull the carrying capacity of the herd the state only allowed the taking of does for the first 15 days of the archery season in certain DMP's.
Poaching connotes more than fishing out of season. The following actions are what I feel are inclusive in the poaching term. Taking fish out of season, taking short fish, taking more than legal limit of fish, Taking fish in a manner other than that allowed by law. (Ex. Nets,fireworks) All but the first form of poaching can transpire either in closed or open season.

[Sparky]

John,
I have read your comments twice and have to be frank-I have learned nothing from you!

I will not speak for the others on the forum, but I like most bass fisherman. What I "dislike" universally are those individuals that find it hard to utilize the gray area between the thick bone located just above their shoulders. I have read most of the posts you reference and fail to find many "expert opinions", but I do find some that fail to utilize the gray area and others that are "experts" in following and respecting the laws that we all have to deal with.

As I mentioned in a previous post, there are many individuals that can find out what an old classmate had for dinner or where they went on their last vacation but cannot find the time to understand or explain why certain rules are in place. So John, I am "hopeful" I can finally learn something from you and the studies you have read. Why does the DEC impose water specific rules in NYS how does that apply to the fishing regulations on Black lake? Why do they allow the Crappie rules that are in place on Black lake? Why is it a good idea to target bass prior to spawn? Please cite your references so we can all become informed.

Like I've said, I have worked with the DEC on and off for a long time. The ones I have worked with are good guys and a LOT smarter than I am in terms of CONSERVING what we have. I look forward to seeing your exchange of information with us.
Sparky

[spence]

I see a lot of varying opinions. In my opinion, I don't see the value of a large(12"+) Crappie being returned to the lake. I see an already abundant population of Crappie. We don't need them for spawning efficiency. They aren't known for their fight. They do make nice fillets though. Maybe I have missed the value here? I would never fillet a Largemouth. I value the strike and fight more than the flesh. I wanna catch them again and I want that fish to make more of them! I will eat some smallmouth occasionally because I find them good eating, I do like to return them more often than not though. If there are perch available, I love to eat them. They are plentiful, not known for their spectacular strike or fight. It makes sense to me to eat the abundant non-gamefish, Now my best OPINION would be to set a slot limit for Largemouths, Smallmouth, and Northern Pike. For Bass, keep the 12-15 inch fish, if you want, but then let them grow for spectacular big fish opportunity. This also would make for larger quantities of eggs in those "PROTECTED" nests. My opinion on the Northern Pike would also suggest a slot from about 25-32 inches for eating. The big pike will help control the crappie population too. Which could also improve the survival rate of the baby bass, walleye, and other gamefish that those crappie enjoy. It takes a balance, of course, and I am no expert. But these are my OPINIONS. I do enjoy hearing all of your opinions as food for thought so I thought I'd share my opinions too. In the meantime let's play by the rules and encourage others to do the same. Spence

[fishinmagician]

Sparky, in your post you mentioned about working with the DEC on and off for years. In that time did you ever ask them about a slot limit for Bass? Do you think it would be a good idea for BL? There have been others who posed the same question, but I don't think a final theory was established. I have been a BL fan since 06. One or two weeks is my usual stay, so I can't really speak on the topic of (has the lake changed over the years) whereas there have been conditions that impact my success. For example, last year the water was much higher on the bass opener, then the year before. My question is....is the lake getting better/worse or staying the same? or is it the old adage "The fishing is always better the week before you got there or just after you leave? I would like to hear your opinion. Thanks

[Sparky]

Magician,
My experience with the DEC was and is on the municipal side of mitigating the environmental impacts from development. I can speak more about the impacts on water and land quality than the fish and game side.

To answer your question "is the lake getting better/worse or staying the same?", from what I have witnessed I would speculate that the overall water quality of BL and most other watershed areas in NYS continues to deteriorate, but at a slower rate. How this affects fishing I do not know. In my perfect world we would all self educate, self police and preserve our environment. It is obvious from this forum that we are not in that perfect world yet and need to rely on agencies such as the DEC to help us. I think the DEC is still at the forefront of monitoring and studying current environment conditions and trends. Under current conditions, I would like to see them even more involved and with the ability to conduct more research to readily answer questions like yours. Currently budget and political restraints inhibit their ability to do more. I would not like to imagine the environmental condition of NYS w/o the DEC.

As an aside, I was a seasonal property owner in the Province of Ontario for a while. They have, what they term, an "immediate release" program for fish caught "unlawfully" out of season. They mean immediate, not take a picture and show off to your fiends immediate. The bass and crappie seasons/limits are very similar to BL. Their conservation emphasis was much more restrictive than we have here in the States-a concept that I appreciated. Where I lived they had extensive areas that are labelled "fish sanctuaries" with actual posts and sign in the water, most of which were off limit year round and would have been the best fishing spots on the lake. They take preservation of their current resources very seriously.

Have a safe weekend-Sparky

[mojo]

JohnM - I have to agree with MrSimon. Give it a rest. Your topics and opinions have been beat to death for years on this post. All are good topics but better shared at the campfire over a couple beers with friends. Please continue providing fishing reports but keep it simple. All we need to hear is:

we caught 10 crappie and 2 northerns
we caughrt walleye in 13 ft. of water using worms
we caught perch drifting in deep waters
etc, etc, etc.

See - nothing offensive with this approach as the report only contains a "FISHING REPORT"

[fishinmagician]

Sparky. thanks for your return message, good talking to you. (or should I say typing to you)